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Poser 12 F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Feb 28 7:20 pm)



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Subject: Alligator materials crash Poser 12?


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 10:35 AM · edited Wed, 27 March 2024 at 8:40 AM

Poser 12.0.471, GeForce GTX1050ti, 32GB RAM, Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz

I was using Poser 12 fine yesterday. No problems. Today I found one.

I loaded the Included/Animals/Reptiles/Alligator. When I tried to look at it in the Materials Room, P12 crashed. When I restarted and loaded it again, I tried to render. Crash. Same with GPU render and CPU render.

I loaded the P11 alligator in P12. Same results.

I checked the Included alligator CR2 to make sure the textures were where they should be. They were.

I imported the Included alligator object file. It didn't crash when I went into the Materials Room, but I couldn't see the object using any Display Type. I changed the skin to red and was able to render it.

Next, I opened P11 and loaded the P11 alligator. No problems with looking at the mats and with rendering.

I'm restarting P12 with factory defaults in document and interface.

I graduated next to Included/Hivewire3D/Dawn. She was fine. Then I added Included Robots/Helix. She was also fine. Next, I added Included/Sea Life/Angelfish. These all were fine. Able to view mats and render (both CPU and GPU) without crashing. I went next for Included/Animals/Reptiles/Snake. Everything was working fine, so I loaded Included alligator to the scene and went into the Materials Room. CRASH.

Alligators really are scary.



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 11:16 AM

Interesting. I've never used the alligator, but I just tried it. I was able to look at it in the material room, and it looked fine. It rendered well in Firefly.

But trying to render it in Superfly crashed Poser.


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 11:24 AM

I think this alligator was made for Firefly. I was able to load the P12 gator into P11, and it rendered in Superfly, no problem. But it looked terrible. Like it was made of aluminum or something. Looks much better in Firefly.


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 11:38 AM

Thanks. Good to know it's not just me. I wonder why you can look at it in the Materials Room in P12 and I can't. It hangs on "Setup Action Hip 206 of 259" in the render screen and then crashes. Just in P12.



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 11:52 AM · edited Thu, 08 April 2021 at 11:52 AM

I was able to render it in Firefly, too, in P12, default settings.

LOG 12:45:07 - Info: Your effective UI Scale factor is 1.00 12:46:30 - Analytics: Recording event for Library:Alligator 12:46:32 - Application commands: Add figure(s) from library 12:46:48 - Application commands: Set render options 12:46:49 - Analytics: Recording event for Size:1085x821 12:46:49 - Analytics: Starting timer for Render:FireFly 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of REYES objects: 451226 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of micropolygons created: 0 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of raytracing objects: 0 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of rays traced: 0 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of irradiance cache entries: 0 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of occlusion cache entries: 0 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of primary rays: 0 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of secondary rays: 0 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of shadow rays: 0 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of ambient occlusion rays: 0 12:46:56 - Firefly: Number of texture lookups: 220984 12:46:56 - Firefly: Rendering time: 7.50 seconds. 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of REYES objects: 508784 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of micropolygons created: 21758 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of raytracing objects: 998756 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of rays traced: 54661892 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of irradiance cache entries: 0 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of occlusion cache entries: 0 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of primary rays: 0 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of secondary rays: 0 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of shadow rays: 54661892 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of ambient occlusion rays: 0 12:47:12 - Firefly: Number of texture lookups: 4287718 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of REYES objects: 508784 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of micropolygons created: 1543963 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of raytracing objects: 998756 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of rays traced: 96114771 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of irradiance cache entries: 0 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of occlusion cache entries: 0 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of primary rays: 7488 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of secondary rays: 0 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of shadow rays: 96107283 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of ambient occlusion rays: 0 12:47:28 - Firefly: Number of texture lookups: 3722535 12:47:28 - Firefly: Rendering time: 31.96 seconds. 12:47:28 - Analytics: Ending timer for Render:FireFly

Then I went to do a Superfly render, default settings, CPU, and it hung on that "Setup Action Hip 206 of 259" again and crashed. What am I learning from this? Never go near an alligator's hips.



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 12:19 PM

Same for me. It crashes on "Hip Actor," though the number isn't always the same.

I think I may have figured out the problem. Here's the Material Room settings for skin:

matroom.png

Deleting the "Probe Light" node seems to fix the problem.


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 12:30 PM

Ah! How clever of you! I'll try copying the cr2 and deleting it there. Thanks.



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 1:13 PM · edited Thu, 08 April 2021 at 1:15 PM

randym77, you solved it!!!

I found 2 instances of Probelight.

            nodeInput "AlternateDiffuse"
                {
                name "Alternate_Diffuse"
                value 0 0.14902 0
                parmR NO_PARM
                parmG NO_PARM
                parmB NO_PARM
                node "ProbeLight"
                file NO_MAP
                }

In this, I changed the node to NO_NODE

This was the next.

        node "probeLight" "ProbeLight"
            {
            name "ProbeLight"
            pos 255 334
            inputsCollapsed 1
            nodeInput "Exposure"
                {
                name "Exposure"
                value 4 0 16
                parmR NO_PARM
                parmG NO_PARM
                parmB NO_PARM
                node NO_NODE
                file NO_MAP
                }

I loaded the figure with this intact, but I crashed in the Materials Room. So I removed it, and loaded it again. Some mats changed.

alli.jpg

But I was able to view it in the Materials Room!!!!

matroom.jpg

And I could render it.

Do you know what that ProbeLight node is made from? I see lights, but is it a compound node? But it doesn't have any arrow to jump into it.



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 1:19 PM

I found it. Lighting/Diffuse/Probelight. Never noticed it before. Thanks for your help, randym77!



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


ChromeStar ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 2:53 PM

Even though you solved this, you should report it to prevent the same crash from happening due to similar setups in other materials. But good work on isolating the cause!


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 3:17 PM · edited Thu, 08 April 2021 at 3:21 PM

Yes, ChromeStar, I agree. I had put a thread in the Poser 12 Request forum with a link to this thread. I figured that was the place to report it. Thanks.

I should have titled this thread GatorAid.



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


hborre ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 4:06 PM

IIRC, this alligator is from Content Paradise, a legacy animal figure that really should have been totally removed from the library just because the original vendor didn't know any better in terms of material setup. It's too bad that someone couldn't QC these models before reintroducing them back into P11/12.


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 4:27 PM · edited Thu, 08 April 2021 at 4:27 PM

Maybe, hborre, but the gator works fine in P11 Superfly render. And I can see it in the Materials Room in P11. I couldn't do either of those things in P12, well, not until I altered the cr2 to remove the ProbeLight. And randym77 was able to see it in the Materials Room, whereas I wasn't (but I don't know how his computer differs from mine).

Maybe the fix is just to remove ProbeLights in the materials of the older figures with them or maybe a fix is needed as to how the node is being handled in P12.



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


randym77 ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 4:40 PM

Glad you got it working.

FWIW...if anyone doesn't want to mess with editing CR2s, you can just look at the alligator in the material room in Poser 11 (if you have it), change the materials there, and re-save it.


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 08 April 2021 at 5:01 PM

randym77, that'll work if you don't crash in the Materials Room. That's what kept happening to me! My only solution was to edit the cr2 or say, "See ya later, alligator."

Thanks again for the fix!



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


randym77 ( ) posted Fri, 09 April 2021 at 10:35 AM

Ah, interesting. I thought you were able to look at it in the Material Room in Poser 11.

Weirdly, I had no problem with the alligator in Poser 11. I could look at it in the Material Room, and render it in Superfly.

But it looked very different. Very bright, to the point that it looked like one of those Victorian glass Christmas ornaments. Something about the way Poser 11 handles the alligator materials is different from Poser 12.


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Fri, 09 April 2021 at 10:35 AM

hborre, I just learned I should have opened a ticket for this, so I did. I hadn't realized this until I saw Y-Phil's thread about opening compound nodes.



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


nerd ( ) posted Fri, 09 April 2021 at 6:07 PM
Forum Moderator

I've forwarded this to the devs. Thanks for investigating the issue,

This is exploding in P12's cycles because the way IBL's are handled totally changed. And that's what the Probe Light node is. It's an IBL for just one material. (WHY ON EARTH WOULD ... SIGH) anyway as you've already figured out Set the render to FireFly so Poser doesn't just crash instantly. Go into the mat room and get rid of all the ProbeLight Nodes then resave the figure to the library


nerd ( ) posted Fri, 09 April 2021 at 6:27 PM
Forum Moderator

IN fact ... here's a quickly assembled hybrid material for Wally Gator. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zl75ncmul9ddut/Alligator.MC6.zip?dl=0


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Fri, 09 April 2021 at 7:05 PM

Thanks, nerd. I'll grab it when I'm on my other computer. Actually, I made my own, even though I'll probably never use the gator. But my problem wasn't just crashing during the render. I crashed when trying to go into the Materials Room, so I had to edit the cr2 to be able to get in.



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


adp001 ( ) posted Fri, 09 April 2021 at 7:08 PM

Sav the following to a file with the extension ".py" ("DeleteProbeLights.py" for example) and run it. It will delete all Probelights from all materials found in the current Scene.

def del_probelights(material):
    for idx in range(material.NumLayers()):
        for node in material.LayerShaderTree(idx):
            if node.Type() == poser.kNodeTypeCodePROBELIGHT:
                node.Delete()


for actor in poser.Scene().Actors():
    for mat in actor.Materials():
        del_probelights(mat)




VedaDalsette ( ) posted Fri, 09 April 2021 at 7:13 PM

Thanks, adp001!



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


Y-Phil ( ) posted Sat, 10 April 2021 at 7:13 AM · edited Sat, 10 April 2021 at 7:14 AM

If you allow me, here an updated version of adp001's script, which doesn't raise an error on Poser 12:

def del_probelights(material):
    for idx in range(material.NumLayers()):
        for node in material.LayerShaderTree(idx).Nodes():
            if node.Type() == poser.kNodeTypeCodePROBELIGHT:
                node.Delete()


for actor in poser.Scene().Actors():
    for mat in actor.Materials() or []:
        del_probelights(mat)

PhYl.


Win10 on i7 8700K@4.3Ghz, 64Gb, Asus TUF Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 2x 2Tb ssd + 6+4Tb hd  + 1x 8Tb hd + 1 10T NAS, Poser 11, Poser 12  and now Poser 13 


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Sat, 10 April 2021 at 7:39 AM

Thanks, just made the update!



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Sat, 10 April 2021 at 8:30 AM

Nerd, your alligator tex fix was better than mine. I made a couple of minor tweaks for personal preference, and now Alli is a Florida-worthy thing of hideous beauty who doesn't crash Poser 12.

allifixed.png



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


randym77 ( ) posted Sat, 10 April 2021 at 5:48 PM

Looks great. A lot of CP's animals don't look that great by today's standards, but this alligator looks pretty good.


nerd ( ) posted Wed, 14 April 2021 at 11:18 PM
Forum Moderator

The fix for this crash is in beta testing now. Watch your in-app notices for the next service release. It will address this issue.


VedaDalsette ( ) posted Thu, 15 April 2021 at 6:04 PM

nerd posted at 6:03PM Thu, 15 April 2021 - #4416974

The fix for this crash is in beta testing now. Watch your in-app notices for the next service release. It will address this issue.

And that's no croc! (hehehe)



W10,Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz, 32.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, video GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB.
Old lady hobbyist.
All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."


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