.

Many of the OBJ models I've gdownloaded have four or more image maps associated with them. Often there's no associated MTL file, or the MTL file only mentions one or two of the maps.

In my experience even when there's an MTL file Poser only seems to load and connect the diffuse/texture map when importing an OBJ.

So I usually end up manually connected the maps. But I'm probably not connecting them in the best way.

The four most common types of map I've come across are:

1. Diffuse/texture maps (colour) - the basic colour map of the object. Connects to Diffuse_Colour

2. Height/displacement maps (greyscale) - in Poser terminology 'bump' would fit here too. Connects to Bump or Displacement

3. Normal maps (colour) - all the ones I've seen are tangent-space, with the mainly bluish tone. Connects to Gradient_Bump, with Gradient_Mode set to Tangent Space Normal Map

4. Specular maps (greyscale) - Connects to Specular_Value

Sometimes there are a different set of maps, or additional maps - here are a few that I can remember seeing:

1. Albedo - these images appear to be the same as diffuse/texture maps, so I use them in the same way.

2. AO maps (greyscale) - ambient occlusion. Not sure how these should be used. I sometimes connect them to Bump, and sometimes invert them and connect them to Diffuse_Value (and Specular_Value)

3. Roughness (greyscale) - a PBR thing? I sometimes connect them to Bump and Highlight_Size with some intermediate nodes

4. I know that there are other maps but I can't recall any off-hand. Let me know if you think of any of them.

So my main question is this - how do you people connect up the various maps to the Poser_Surface node ?

(Note: I'm using Poser 11 Firefly, but if you use Superfly I'd be happy to see responses for that too)

My second question concerns the Gamma values you set when you select an Image_Source. I know (?) that greyscale maps should generally have gamma = 1.0, and colour images generally use gamma = 2.2 with one exception (I think) normal maps should use gamma = 1.0. Am I correct ?

"So my main question is this - how do you people connect up the various maps to the Poser_Surface node ? (Note: I'm using Poser 11 Firefly, but if you use Superfly I'd be happy to see responses for that too)"

For Superfly I would assume the PhysicalSurface node would be better? In any case, I would be interested to see how they're connected across all three types of root nodes (PoserSurface, PhysicalSurface and Cycles)

I just loaded La Femme's one piece swimsuit (comes with Poser 11, from RPublishing) and that just uses an AO map (there's also a stitch mask, but I'm not currently bothered about masks). It's connected directly to the PhysicalSurface node's Color input, which I guess is sort of equivalent to the Poser_Surface Diffuse_Colour input.

Gamma value appears to be set to 1.0 as expected.

You do not need Ambient Occlusion for Superfly in most cases, so the image you are showing in your post appears to be an AO image that has a correct Gc but, in my opinion, is incorrectly connected to the PhysicalSurface. Before you actually start connecting image nodes, evaluate if it is really relevant in the scene, for example, if it is going to be in the background you can forego adding bump and displacement maps and simplify the PBR setup to get what you want. Additionally, determine which PBR nodes will do the job; you have a choice of PhysicalSurface, Cycle, and PrincipledBSDF if you are rendering in SuperFly. Each has limitations.

To answer some of your questions, the Albedo map is an image that has been somewhat desaturated to eliminate harsh contrast between shadows and bright areas. It allows other maps (bump, displacement, normal, specular, etc.) to bring out the detail in the model under PBR conditions. It is a desaturated Diffuse map. I created a compound node that somewhat does that in Poser.

A Roughness map is relatively the same as a displacement. A Normal map can be used for bump details although it is better to use an actual Bump map if you have it available. You will find Normal maps regularly used in gaming render engines, in my opinion, I would reserve those maps for background objects/figures if you want to show a little more relief detail.

Kalypso posted at 9:28PM Tue, 26 January 2021 - #4411094

... For Superfly I would assume the PhysicalSurface node would be better? In any case, I would be interested to see how they're connected across all three types of root nodes (PoserSurface, PhysicalSurface and Cycles)

Me too - I'm sure I'll start using Superfly at some time.

hborre posted at 9:29PM Tue, 26 January 2021 - #4411109

You do not need Ambient Occlusion for Superfly in most cases, so the image you are showing in your post appears to be an AO image that has a correct Gc but, in my opinion, is incorrectly connected to the PhysicalSurface...

But assuming you decided that using an AO map was appropriate to the circumstances, then to which input would you connect it?

hborre posted at 9:29PM Tue, 26 January 2021 - #4411109

...Before you actually start connecting image nodes, evaluate if it is really relevant in the scene, for example, if it is going to be in the background you can forego adding bump and displacement maps and simplify the PBR setup to get what you want. Additionally, determine which PBR nodes will do the job; you have a choice of PhysicalSurface, Cycle, and PrincipledBSDF if you are rendering in SuperFly. Each has limitations.

Definitely good points, but lets assume that we've decided that each map is relevant to the circumstances.

hborre posted at 9:41PM Tue, 26 January 2021 - #4411110

To answer some of your questions, the Albedo map is an image that has been somewhat desaturated to eliminate harsh contrast between shadows and bright areas. It allows other maps (bump, displacement, normal, specular, etc.) to bring out the detail in the model under PBR conditions. It is a desaturated Diffuse map. I created a compound node that somewhat does that in Poser...

Ah, that explains it! I thought the albedo maps looked rather washed out.

hborre posted at 9:41PM Tue, 26 January 2021 - #4411110

...A Roughness map is relatively the same as a displacement. A Normal map can be used for bump details although it is better to use an actual Bump map if you have it available. You will find Normal maps regularly used in gaming render engines, in my opinion, I would reserve those maps for background objects/figures if you want to show a little more relief detail.

I recall bagginsbill doing some tests which indicated that Poser rendered faster using bump maps than normal maps. That rather surprised me - I'll see if I can track down the link. Another advantage of bump maps that he pointed out is that you have some some control over the strength of the effect.

Look in the Library under Materials -> Superfly -> Superfly Tileable -> !Guide

You will find self explaining templates on how to hook up your maps for various PBR workflows.

Library ? Where's that ?

(The nearest thing I can find is the Poser Reference Manual, which is obviously not what you're talking about)

Ah, THAT library !

For some reason my brain was stuck in physical book type library mode - that's my excuse ! :o)

Thank you for this thread. I've learned a lot.

I've come to OBJ texturing via porting a bunch of 'other' file-types. My 3DOC ($$), Open3ModViewer, Noesis, Irfan View, XnView, XPS>>PMX, PMX Editor and D3D's 'DSF Toolbox' ($$) are kept busy. I've recently converted several DS scenes' multiple props from DSF format. Though 'Toolbox' usually handles DSF meshes okay-ish, it does not export even a 'basic' MTL companion file.

Sometimes OBJ materials match texture names, sometimes there's few enough to figure.

Happily, most DSF & DUF files may be 'un-packed' using eg 7Zip, then the un-typed file within opened as 'indented text' with eg Wordpad. Basic texture calls live near the start of a DUF, but there's also much MC5/MC6-level detail to trawl. Looks 'Advanced Material Room' stuff. At least Wordpad lets you search for textures by name or file-type suffix...

Now that DSON is officially deprecated, if not dead, would be nice to have a utility to rip DUFs to both MTL and MC5/MC6...

( I have DS but, like Blender & GIMP, I cannot grok the UI... )

parkdalegardener posted at 6:23AM Mon, 08 February 2021 - #4411166

Look in the Library under Materials -> Superfly -> Superfly Tileable -> !Guide

You will find self explaining templates on how to hook up your maps for various PBR workflows.

I've had a look at those four templates (thanks hborre for the idiot's guide with pictures ;o).

So connecting PBR maps to a Poser Physical Surface node is mostly very obvious (1-5, 9), with a couple of _"Ah, I thought so!"_s (8, 6) , but one googly (7)

1. Transparency Map (greyscale) => Transparency I/P (numeric)
2. Normal Map (colour) => NormalMap I/P (numeric)
3. Emission Map (greyscale) => Emission I/P (colour)
4. Metallic Map (greyscale) => Metallic I/P (numeric)
5. Roughness Map (greyscale) => Roughness I/P (numeric)
6. Gloss (greyscale) => Invert => Roughness I/P (numeric)
7. Specular (greyscale) => Multiply by 12.5 ?! => Specular I/P (colour)
8. Albedo Map (colour) => Color I/P (colour)
9. Height Map (greyscale) => Displacement (numeric)

I'd suspected that a Roughness Map was effectively an inverted old-fashioned Specular Map.

But why does the new-style Specular Map need to be multiplied by 12.5 ?

~ ~ ~

Anyway, going back to my personal original question, i.e. how to use the plethora of new-fangled maps with a PoserSurface node and Firefly, I think that the only outstanding PBR map from that list is the Metallic Map.

So how would I usefully connect a PBR Metallic Map to a PoserSurface node ?

~ ~ ~

I should also point out that this thread is not specifically about PBR image maps: that's over there => Using PBR material sets?

The other main type of image map sets I'm interested in are the ones that come with models intended for games. These usually have a basic texture colour map plus a normal map, sometimes an AO map, and usually one or two others whose names match some of the PBR maps.

hborre mentioned earlier that AO maps aren't really necessary for Superfly, but I have a few models that only have the three maps - base colour map, normal map and AO map.

• How would folks recommend that I use the AO map for Firefly/PoserSurface ?
• How would folks recommend that I use the AO map for Superfly/PhysicalSurface ?

Ironsoul's comment about displacement over on the PBR thread reminded me that Superfly doesn't do micropolygon displacement, so I need to make a slight addition to item 9 in my previous summary.

3dcheapskate posted at 3:16AM Tue, 09 February 2021 - #4412271

....

So connecting PBR maps to a Poser Physical Surface node is mostly very obvious (1-5, 9), with a couple of _"Ah, I thought so!"_s (8, 6) , but one googly (7)

1. Transparency Map (greyscale) => Transparency I/P (numeric)
2. Normal Map (colour) => NormalMap I/P (numeric)
3. Emission Map (greyscale) => Emission I/P (colour)
4. Metallic Map (greyscale) => Metallic I/P (numeric)
5. Roughness Map (greyscale) => Roughness I/P (numeric)
6. Gloss (greyscale) => Invert => Roughness I/P (numeric)
7. Specular (greyscale) => Multiply by 12.5 ?! => Specular I/P (colour)
8. Albedo Map (colour) => Color I/P (colour)
9. Height Map (greyscale) => Displacement (numeric) ...N.B. Superfly does NOT support micropolygon displacement, so the resolution of the displacement is down to the actual mesh density. So alternatively...

9b. Height Map (greyscale) => Bump (numeric)

Alternative use of height map. Some programs use the height map to blend between two surfaces based on height, for example water level. Changing the "Adjust Water Level" value between 0 and 1 moves the water level up.

Another thank you...

And, consider my wits seriously boggled...

( Have sorta assembled my Ryzen 7 'network render box', but it flatly refuses to 'group' with this CAD-Tower, demanding all sorts of permissions...)

As usual Renderosity's not telling me about new posts, so a belated thanks to ironsoul.

I actually came back here simply to post this screenshot...

...which was in the description for this Turbosquid freebie Shirakawago Village Set House 1 3D modelby Lokomotto

...sooooo...

BaseColor ≅ Diffuse

Normal, Normal_OpenGL, and Normal_DirectX are all normal maps, with the latter two being specific to particular architectures(is that what you'd call them?)

MetallicRoughnessOcclusion is probably three maps with line breaks missing ? Metallic, Roughness, and Occlusion ?

What else can we tell from that list ?